Curse

Talin_The_Medic · Oct 31, 2006, 12:42 AM // 00:42

Ok none of my friends in game are experienced at monking.

At all....

So here's a build I came up with, using the nightfall elite, Healer's Covenant. I haven't tested it yet since I'm on a buddy key.. so.. here it is.

Profession: Mo/Me

1- Heal Other
2- Jamei's Gaze
3- Healer's Covenant
4- Dwayna's Kiss/Heal of your choice
5- Healing Touch
6- Inspired Hex
7- Revealed Hex
8- Rez of your choice

Attributes:

Healing Prayers - 16
Divine Favor - 8
Inspiration - 10

Opinions anyone?

Toxic RD · Oct 31, 2006, 03:30 AM // 03:30

I'd be interested to see someone do the math, to see how effective HC is, some equation balancing the 25% less healing and the -3 energy

ShaneOfMach · Oct 31, 2006, 04:54 AM // 04:54

It's Heal Party on steroids.

If someone is above 80% health, they aren't really high priority when it comes to healing :P

moko · Oct 31, 2006, 08:45 AM // 08:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShaneOfMach

It's Heal Party on steroids.

If someone is above 80% health, they aren't really high priority when it comes to healing :P

sorry but, that was Light of Deliverance

Healer's Covenant:

While you maintain this Enchantment, your healing Spells heal for 25% less Health, but cost -1...3 Energy.

first thing, dont take a rez, take a condition removal.

then..maybe Orison might be better than Dwaynas due to the recharge, and the health over time would probably be bigger from Orison than youd get from Dwaynas.

im not too sure how good your energy would work, maybe you could just stick in Sig of Devotion instead of Healing Touch for a solid-free (self) heal that saves energy?

overall im not sure about this, basically your having 7 e spells that heal for a bit more than the usual 5e spells with a worse recharge and 3 pips of regen..

Toxic RD · Oct 31, 2006, 04:16 PM // 16:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mokone

sorry but, that was Light of Deliverance

Healer's Covenant:

While you maintain this Enchantment, your healing Spells heal for 25% less Health, but cost -1...3 Energy.

first thing, dont take a rez, take a condition removal.

then..maybe Orison might be better than Dwaynas due to the recharge, and the health over time would probably be bigger from Orison than youd get from Dwaynas.

im not too sure how good your energy would work, maybe you could just stick in Sig of Devotion instead of Healing Touch for a solid-free (self) heal that saves energy?

overall im not sure about this, basically your having 7 e spells that heal for a bit more than the usual 5e spells with a worse recharge and 3 pips of regen..

Yes, but for 5e spells, you can cast almost 2 for the price of 1, you lose 50% healing, but your casting 2x heals, this is why i'd like to see some math

ubard · Oct 31, 2006, 05:06 PM // 17:06

i'm curious, does this spell affect the DF healing??

if not, you could just pump divine favor hugely and party it up.

moko · Oct 31, 2006, 06:29 PM // 18:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toxic RD

Yes, but for 5e spells, you can cast almost 2 for the price of 1, you lose 50% healing, but your casting 2x heals, this is why i'd like to see some math

well, i didnt mean it that way; i was replying to the OP's build that contained 7 E spells instead of 5, but yeah, i do get your point

if someone would do the math that would be nice, but by just looking at it, its probably worse to use this elite..i really dont like it at all. if you go with something like it, why not just Healer's Boon? (old Revitalise) - capped it today and it worked like a CHARM. loving it <3 still gotta make a nice build

ubard · Oct 31, 2006, 06:56 PM // 18:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mokone

well, i didnt mean it that way; i was replying to the OP's build that contained 7 E spells instead of 5, but yeah, i do get your point

if someone would do the math that would be nice, but by just looking at it, its probably worse to use this elite..i really dont like it at all. if you go with something like it, why not just Healer's Boon? (old Revitalise) - capped it today and it worked like a CHARM. loving it <3 still gotta make a nice build

it is indeed, i've been running it in gvg a couple times so far, it's really nice.

it certainly has more power than Glimmer, which i really wish i could love...

Talin_The_Medic · Oct 31, 2006, 09:15 PM // 21:15

Ok... you want math? I'll give you math... at least a little.

At 16 healing prayers heal other/jamei's gaze would heal for 143 + divine favor (near 24) for 7 energy. Kiss would heal for a varied amount... an average or 100 or so is what I usually find, for 2 energy. Insp hex would give 3 energy (8 from spell, minus the cost of 5), and my monk currently has 56 energy. Like I said, I'll test this more as soon as I can find Healer's covenant and cap it... I can't wait to try it out.

Or I might use my current WoH build and throw in glimmer of light (which isn't too bad even though it is nerfed, 40% halve recharge time FTW!!)

LouAl · Nov 01, 2006, 08:49 PM // 20:49

here is some more math for you to chew on...

*Assumes divine favor @8 (is that 26 health bonus?) and Healing at 16 (I would suggest a higher DF but that is the level that the op suggested)
*Does not figure in how much energy you are not gaining because you would be at 3 pips e-regen
*Figures were calculated using {(Heal Amount + DF Bonus) -[(Heal amount + DF bonus)*.25]}/Cost of the spell <---this may not be correct...does it calculate 25% of the total heal (DF bonus included) or not?

Heal Other/Jamei's Gaze
Health per energy is 21.6 without HC, but 23.14286 with HC

Dwayna's Kiss (with 1 enchant)
25.2 without HC, but 47.25 with HC

Healing Touch
23 without HC, but 57.5 with HC

Orison
19.8 without HC, but 37.125 with HC

Does anyone know how it interacts with Vig Spirit? Does VS give 25% less health per action if you cast it while under HC?

My thoughts are that Healer's Covenant is not really worth it on the 10e spells, but if you concentrate on 5 e heals you could easily continually cast without ever running out of energy. If you cast, on average, a 5 energy spell every 2 seconds you would exactly breakeven on energy regen so you would have more than enough to use on whatever else you want to use. I would say that a Pure healer would never need any more energy management than this spell.

Now an interesting use might be to use both HC and Divine Boon so that all your 5 energy spells cost 4 energy (you will need something for e-mgmt obviously), and depending on how the DF bonus interacts with the healing reduction of HC...it may be another option to look into

So, what we need to know is this: Is the 25% reduction in healing taken from the total heal (Divine Favor and/or Divine Boon bonus included) or is it a 25% reduction of the power of the spell with the Divine Favor (and/or Divine Boon) bonus added on top and not getting reduced. Also, does the healing power of Divine Boon get reduced by 25% even though it is not a healing prayer (probably not I would think).

Carth` · Nov 02, 2006, 12:10 PM // 12:10

The 25% reduction affects only the healing spell, not the Divine Favor bonus.

I tested it in Isle of the Nameless and it certainly seemed efficient. I tried it with high Healing Prayers and high Divine Favor, and naturally the high DF seemed better, because every spell cost 2 energy and healed for over 50, then the Healing Prayers spell on top, which for an Orison would normally be 70ish, so was more like 50ish.

I stood there spamming various heals on the Master of Combat for ages, and my energy was staying very close to max - mostly due to cast time and aftercast. Each heal was healing for around 90-100 health.

To compare with and without Healer's Covenant:

Without - each Orison healed for 114 and cost 5 energy
With - each Orison healed for 98 and cost 2 energy

Without - 22.8 health per point of energy
With - 49 health per point of energy

Without - 4 energy regen = 1.33 energy per second
With - 3 energy regen = 1 energy per second

You decide if it's worth it. With the right build, I think it will be. I wouldn't run my attributes that high in reality because I usually need a 3rd attribute line like Inspiration Magic or Shadow Arts.

TerminatorUK · Nov 02, 2006, 02:27 PM // 14:27

This is indeed interesting...energy management is always an issue when I'm monking (and many 'good' management measures are far too time consuming in RA/TA).

Am I right in saying the -3 energy just applys to spells in Healing Prayers, Protection prayers would not receive this bonus? (on the same note, only healing spells lose 25% healing, not protection?)

How would you deal with conditions/hexs on the party whilst not using too many 5 energy condition removals with only 3 pips of regen?

I currently use Peace and Harmony with 16 Divine Favour and a +20% enchantment mod weapon which allows the 5 energy elite to last nearly 2 minutes before needing to be cast again to give 5 pips of regen. Would Healer's Covenant be more efficient than using Peace and Harmony with condition/hex removal in the equation?

LouAl · Nov 02, 2006, 06:06 PM // 18:06

You are right, the -3 only applies to healing prayers. As far as a comparison to P&H - P&H gives you 1 pip for 112 seconds (about 38 energy spread out over 2 minutes minus your original 5e, so about 33 e or .29e/sec) where you would be spending the same 38 over 112 seconds to maintain HC but get -3 on every healing spell (potential savings of 30 more energy than P&H if you cast approximately once every 5 seconds, which could be used on non-healing prayers hex removal).

My thought is that you could easily run at 16 in DF and 15 in healing if you wanted to and you wouldn't run into much (if any problems). You could easiely forego the usual inspired/revealed hex and replace it with holy veil/remove hex .You probably don't need the extra energy from insp/rev and could easily use either holy veil or remove to get about the same hex removal as taking both insp and revealed (2 @ 20second recharge or 1 @ 7or12).

I am thinking that Heal Party might be a bad addition to this biuld (takes the cost down to 12 but also reduces healing to 60 per person @ 15 Healing), but some other high cost spells in other areas might be great since you should have a ton of essentially wasted energy. It might be a good combo with a bonder set up, something like:

Heal-13
Prot-13
DF-15
(I like running 3 sup runes but do whatever)

Dwayna's Kiss
Healing Touch
Healer's Covenant
LV/Vig Spirit
Blessed Signet
Life Bond
Balth's Spirit
Res (I prefer it just in case)

Did anyone check how the D's Kiss bonus figures in with the 25% reduction?

Maxiemonster · Nov 02, 2006, 08:58 PM // 20:58

It isn't limited to Healing Prayers spells, it's limited to healing spells, which is something completly different. Reversal of Fortune, Mend Condition and Mend Ailment are all effected. I haven't tested any others, but I'm fairly sure there are much more spells that are effected.

EDIT: Dwayna's Kiss and Words of Comfort their bonuses are both reduced by 25%. Also, keep in mind that you only need 12 Healing Prayers for a maxed out Healer's Covenent, making this a nice way to use Gift of Health combined with Protection Prayers skills, altough using this with Divine Boon isn't all that great (even though it's nice that only 2 energy has to recharge in order to heal when you're at 0 energy).

Also, I think Holy Haste is a very nice addition to many of these builds. It serves as a cover enchantment (even though it's 10 energy, which is quite high), and last up to 64 seconds (at 16 Divine Favor). You can't however, use other enchantments such as Reversal of Fortune, Guardian, Protective Spirit and Vigorous Spirit.

I've been using this build myself:
- 16 Divine Favor (12+3+1)
- 12 Healing Prayers (11+1)
- 7 Protection Prayers (6+1)
- 2 Inspiration Magic

1. Orison of Healing
2. Dwayna's Kiss
3. Healing Touch
4. Mend Condition
5. Inspired Hex
6. Contemplation of Purity
7. Holy Haste
8. Healer's Covenent [Elite]

It works quite well. The problem is definitly not the energy, because the health per energy is extremly high, but it just takes too much time to heal someone in many situations. Healing Touch heals for 140 points with these attributes, which is great, though, Orison of Healing (95) and Dwayna's Kiss (89+) are alot less effective. Contemplation of Purity works well with these two enchantments, even though your energy it costs to get both enchantments back up afterwards, your energy will rise later. Inspired Hex is free now (5 energy cost, 5 energy gain). Since none of the monk hex removers are effected by HC, and Holy Veil removes Holy Haste, this seems best.

Pros:
- Alot less vurnarable against energy draining then most builds (even when you reach 0 energy, you can still continue healing decently).
- No energy problems in harder situations.
- Fast casts while Holy Haste is on.
- Can carry items when needed (this builds doesn't really need it's weapons).
- Cheap condition removal.
- Contemplation of Purity gives alot of flexability against particular builds.

Cons:
- Not alot of flexability when it comes to skills (lack of skill slots).
- More vurnarable against Blackout (no Guardian, Protective spirit or Spirit Bond to help you out then alot of other builds.
- Very enchantment depended. Although you can recast HC every 5 seconds and you have all the energy you need.

Carth` · Nov 05, 2006, 05:53 AM // 05:53

It looks good on paper, but.. I dunno, I tried it and I didn't find it as effective as other builds.

You are right, the problem was not the energy, I had plenty of it, the problem is healing power. If you had a build that made every spell heal for only 20 health, but cost no energy, it wouldn't be worth it.

I pwnd U · Nov 05, 2006, 05:58 AM // 05:58

if you are going to carry healing touch you would be better off taking infuse instead of orision. if you want to carry orision i would advise taking heal other or something else over healing touch.

moko · Nov 05, 2006, 10:05 AM // 10:05

if energy isnt an issue, kick Dwayna's for a 10e spell?>_>

Maxiemonster · Nov 05, 2006, 12:04 PM // 12:04

Yep, I haven't tested alot with this build, but switching something out for a higher energy spike heal is smart. But first, it's time to cap this for my PvE monk

I'll test some more when I get it.

EDIT: I got to the place I can cap it, but it's so hard to cap... Did anyone else succeed? :/

IrinaBertram · Nov 05, 2006, 07:48 PM // 19:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maxiemonster

EDIT: I got to the place I can cap it, but it's so hard to cap... Did anyone else succeed? :/

I capped it with henchs using a bonder build, wasn't too hard this way. And make sure you don't use the bridge with the dervish boss on it (i.e. not the way that's on guildwiki), go right instead.

Saphrium · Nov 05, 2006, 10:12 PM // 22:12

Trivial, I think. Correct me if I am wrong.
It might be a good build for a secondary/utility healer supporting monks and tanks.
It is probably not a good build for spike healing, party or AoE healing.

First we know that divine favor only affects targeted ally, which means if you use party and area heal and multiple healing target, it won't get the divine favor benefit and greatly reduced the healing amount, but if healing amount over time(HPS?) is the primary concern, the 25% reduction in healing power really does not inspire much confidence, yet again, usually we use prot skills to contain the dmg inflicted upon ally, and HC only utilize healing skills energy management and not prot skills, which makes it kinda weird to use.

But I am just thinking on blank paper here, I really like to hear some feedback on someone who actually played it in pvp.